The Nature of God
Who is God? There are many different beliefs about the nature of God in our modern world. Mormons have a very clear concept of God, and especially a clearly defined idea about the relationship between God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Mormons believe that the concepts identified by such nonscriptural terms as “the incomprehensible mystery of God” and “the mystery of the Holy Trinity” are attributable to the ideas of Greek philosophy. These philosophical concepts transformed Christianity in the first few centuries following the deaths of the Apostles. For example, philosophers then maintained that physical matter was evil and that God was a spirit without feelings or passions. Persons of this persuasion, including learned men who became influential converts to Christianity, had a hard time accepting the simple teachings of early Christianity: an Only Begotten Son who said he was in the express image of his Father in Heaven and who taught his followers to be one as he and his Father were one, and a Messiah who died on a cross and later appeared to his followers as a resurrected being with flesh and bones”. (Elder Dallin H. Oaks, Apostasy and Restoration, Ensign (CR), May 1995, p.84).
Let there be no confusion—God, our Heavenly Father is the Father of our spirits. He is also the Father of the spirit of Jesus. The Holy Trinity is not a blur, but rather three separate and distinct personages. Heavenly Father gave to His Son those of His children who would take upon themselves the name of His Son, demonstrating faith in Him by repenting of their sins and entering the holy waters of baptism and then going forth steadfastly in His kingdom forever.
Each member of this trinity is called God, and together they constitute the Godhead. As indicated, they are three separate beings, but they are one in purpose, and Jesus repeatedly testified of the unity existing among the three.” (President N. Eldon Tanner, A Basis for Faith in the Living God, Ensign, November 1978, p.46).
Heavenly Father The father of our spirits, Heavenly Father knows each of us personally and wants us to return to Him. Just as children grow up to be like their earthly parents, Mormons believe that we will grow up in this life to eventually be like our Heavenly Father as well, in the life to come. (Read more)
Jesus Christ in Mormonism There are still a few uninformed people who think that Mormons are not Christians or that Mormons don’t believe in Jesus Christ. But Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the creator of earth and is the Son of God, who came on the earth to save all men and women who accept Him and follow His commandments. (Read more)
The Holy Ghost Mormons believe that, before this life on earth, all people lived in heaven with our Heavenly Father as spirits He created. We received bodies when we came to earth. The Holy Ghost is a child of God who has yet to receive a body. The Holy Ghost performs an important and necessary role as a member of the Godhead. His role is the confirmer of truth. Some Christians says that God is “so small He can dwell in your heart.” It is actually the Holy Ghost, a spirit, who can dwell in one’s heart. (Read more)
God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit existing as three persons yet in constant communion as God. Mormons would have you believe there are three distinct gods, each a god in themselves, but this is not true. The Trinity exists as Three Persons existing as one God. Think of it this way. You have a tree, the trunk is God the Father, the branches, God the Son, and the leaves, God the HOLY SPIRIT. The tree represents God. The HOLY SPIRIT is not waiting to gain a body of flesh and blood and GOD THE FATHER never ever had a body of flesh and blood, and never will. The Book of Isaiah states that God was and is and will always be the same. God the Father never will change, HE is and always will be the same. Turn from the Mormon Church as I did; save your souls with the blood of the True Jesus Christ. I beg of you to do this, please.
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karenrose Reply:
March 7th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Thanks for visiting our unofficial site. I differ completely on your illogical version of the Trinity. Based on your analogy, what will you be after this life if you will live on–more like the trunk, the branches, or the leaves, spiritually speaking? You are a being. God is a Being. Jesus is His Son. This is a Father-Son relationship. The Holy Ghost bears witness of both. I testify to you that this is so. I bear you that witness in the name of the Savior.
In addition, I’ll share the words of an apostle, Jeff Holland on this subject, which covers points I studied earlier as I left a Christian denomination whose conception of deity rested on man’s constructed notions from the Council of Nicea. I testify, again, that Elder Holland’s words are true. They follow:
We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true.
Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper’s Bible Dictionary records that “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament].”
So any criticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not hold the contemporary Christian view of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is not a comment about our commitment to Christ but rather a recognition (accurate, I might add) that our view of the Godhead breaks with post–New Testament Christian history and returns to the doctrine taught by Jesus Himself. Now, a word about that post–New Testament history might be helpful.
In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God’s alleged “trinity in unity.” What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils) as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, immanent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.
We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, . . . and I know not whom to adore or to address.” How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer to His Father in Heaven that “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”?
It is not our purpose to demean any person’s belief nor the doctrine of any religion. We extend to all the same respect for their doctrine that we are asking for ours. (That, too, is an article of our faith.) But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first Christian Saints, many of whom were eyewitnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?7
We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.
With these New Testament sources and more ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do. On another occasion He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” Of His antagonists He said, “[They have] . . . seen and hated both me and my Father.” And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.” “My father is greater than I.”
To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”? To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best: “Christ Jesus . . . being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”
God bless you in your spiritual journey. While we may differ in view, I respect your right to worship as you will, and what you will, and I will worship “who” I will. All the best….
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mike Reply:
March 14th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
there is only one lord one faith and only one baptism…jesus said baptize in the name of the fater,son and holy ghost.if you whant to know what that name is look in acts 2:38(the apostles always baptized in the name of jesus)Jesus is the name of the father,son,and holy ghost.
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jj Reply:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:02 am
You are exactly right Mike! That’s how we do it. We believe that the verse you site in Ephesians is correct as well. Just as Paul traveled throughout palestine setting up the Church of Christ as Christ intended it to be, so too is our church set up. Christ’s former Church has been restored again to the earth, with the same foundation that existed in his church See also Ephesians 2-4, a foundation of prophets and apostles, Christ himself being the Cheif Cornerstone.
JJ
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James Reply:
June 28th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Karen,
You did well articulating your thoughts and I wish I was half as good at putting the proverbial pen to paper as you, but all the same, even well articulated thoughts can be wrong. And you are very wrong in your analysis of the Biblical doctrine of the trinity as formulated by the early church. You state that the formulation of the doctrine of the Being of God was somehow “imposed upon the Church. And this couldn’t be further from the truth. Anyone who understand early church history realizes that the Nicene Creed was an attempt by the early church Bishops to establish statements of belief to unify all of Christianity. Certainly there were political influences on Constantine’s part, and I am no big fan of Contantine, but the situations that brought about the council was motivated by the Bishops of all the Synods around the world to REFLECT common understandings of the Nature of God against uncommon and heretical teachings regarding the nature of God, mainly that of Arianism. Arianism, as you know, was a heresy the early chruch contented with that stripped Jesus of Divinity and define Him as a created being. The Nicene creeds and all other Orthodox statements are simply a continuation of this. And I would further state I affirm these creeds not because the believers who formulated were infallible, but because they reflect in the truest sense the Biblical Nature of God and stay true to how God through progressive revelation has made Himself know not only through the Old Testament, but also in light of the New. I state this because the TESTIMONY OF SCRIPTURE SHOWS THIS TO BE TRUE, not my testimony…..God’s word not LDS or Joseph Smith have the final say….
Now this is no easy task, and I do not affirm the doctine of the trinity because some council 1700 years ago told me I had to. I affirm it because of the clear implications of scripture and how God through progressive revelation and the Holy Spirit has reveal himself to me and the church at large through the Holy Scripture. I affirm clearly Jesus’s divinity yet I also affirm that there is BUT one God. One God who exist from everlasting to everlasting. Psalms 90:2 speaks of God eternal quality of Being from everlasting to everlasting. I also affirm that this ONE God is absolutely alone. He states this in Isaiah 44:6-8 I am the first and I am the last and there is no God beside Me….and then in 43:10-11…..So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me was no God formed And there will be none after Me. vs 11 I, even I am the LORD and there is NO savior beside Me. Clearly the implications of these passages in Isaiah compared to other passages Deut 6:4 Isa 45:5-6, 14, 18, 21-22 I could list many more, but it’s crystal clear from these passages above that God Himself states in unequivocal terms that there are no other gods before Him besides Him or yet to be in the future. This exactly what I as a trinitarian would expect to find in the Bible and why the prophets, priest, kings and apostles stated aswell….2nd Sam 7:22 states For this reason Thou art great, O Lord God; for there is none like Thee, and there is no God beside Thee…
Now the second assumption I make about God as a trinitarian is that He is multi-personal. Numerically speaking there is but One God (as shown) yet within this one God there exist more than one person, ego, intellect or self and this is exactly what we see with God. It’s interesting to note the Hebrew word Echad denotes this very aspect of God being one in the sense of a compound unity or composite unit. By comparison of Deut 6:4 with Genesis 2:24 we see that One here clearly reflects this. In Gen 2:24 when addressing the union of Adam and Eve there are two persons who composed a composite unity through the institution of marriage. It’s also interesting to note in my support that God is multi-personal is we see God use terms like We, Us or Our as well as I Myself or Me. Gen 1:26-27 reads Then God said, Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over…….Now grammatically it’s interesting to note that this passage uses main verb, as well as the pronouns, as all plurals. This indicates that God is the “US” and “Our” who is speaking. Now it’s interesting that Mormons have dismissed this passage to refer to this as being a plural of majasty, however good sound scholarly work into hebrew language and ancient culture have dismissed this as nonsense since plural of majaesty just didn’t exist during biblical times. Another example from scripture I will give to support the multipersonal nature of God is found in the Lord sent me passage of scripture found in Isaiah 48:12-17
Listen to me O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first and the also the last. Surely My hand founded the earth and My right hand spread out the heavens; When i call to them they stand together. Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleaure on Babylon And his arm will be against the Chaldeans I even I have spoken, indeed I have called him, and He will maek his ways successful. Come near to Me Listen to this From the first I have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place I was there. And now the Lord God has sent Me and His Spirit.
This a beautiful scripture affirming clearly the multi-personal nature of God. No one would have any difficulty noticing that the speaker is God. Context and grammer make this clear who the speaker is. Yet at the end of the passage in verse 16 if the passage is interpreted in its most natural and normal meaning there are three persons in this passage who are all God. God is speaking yet He refers to the Lord God as sending the speaker by use of the pronoun (ME) and His Spirit. The patriarchs the prophets and the priest and the very writers of Scriptures believed in One God, yet even in the Old testament you can find the multi-personal nature of God.
Now the question comes to mind since the Old Testament writers clearly depicted God as multi-personal did they give any indications of who those persons are?? As a trinitarian I beleive they did. I believe these are found in the Divine names, works and attribues of God. Now as a mormon I know you believe God is described as a Father so I wont spend a lot of time finding scriptural references discribing God as a Father. But I will only mention a few so that I can firmly establish that just as the same case can be made for God being described as a Father the same case can be established for the the personhood and divinity of the Son aswell. Isa 63:15-16 reads Look down frm heaven and see from Thy holy and glorious habitation;where are Thy zeal and Thy mighty deeds? the stirrings of Thy heart and Thy compassions are restrained twoard me. vs 16 For Thou art our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not recognize us. Thou, Oh Lord are our Father our redeemer from of old is Thy name. In verse 16 we see Isaiah looking up to heaven and addressing Yahweh as “Our Father” and it’s interesting to note that Jesus in Matthew 6:9 Our Father who art in heaven…it is clear from both these passages that God the Father as diety and personhood is clearly established.
Now just as we established from text of scripture the personhood and divinity of the Father the next person trinitarians would expect to find as God is the Son. And if is true that the Son is God then the authors of the Old Testament would firmly establish and ascribe diety to Him aswell. In proverbs there is an interesting passage we find that speak of the son. Proverbs 30:4 reads Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His Son’s name? Surely you know! Now it is clear that God is being described here as the soveriegn of the universe as having a son. Secondly it’s clear that Son is clearly a person. 3rd the parallelism in the text reveals what is true of the Father is equally true of His son. It is indicated by this What is His (Father’s) Name, then he asked in the form of a parellism And what is the name of His Son? Notice the writer asks the same question twice to lead the reader to the right answer. And then he asks a rhetorical question…surely you know! It’s obvious that the writer was attempting to establish the incomprehensible nature of God and what was true of God the Father is also true of God the Son. Both are described here as incomprehensible and beyond the capability of mankind to fully understand and comprehend. My final passage in the Old testament to establish the Son is God is found in Psalms 2:1-12. I will not quote the entire passage because it long and I would challenge you to look it up to notice some things that are only true of God are true of the Son who is described as the messiah. Couple of points I’d like to make about this passage in psalms. First His Annointed One mentioned in vs 2 is the Messiah. The ancient Jews and the early Christians were unanimous in this interpretation. Since Messiah is addressed as My Son in verse 7 He later is attributed in the next few verses as having attributes of diety revealed by His divine works only God preforms. We demonstrate this by comparision of Ps 24:1-2 Job 34:24 and Jeremiah 51:19-23. Ps 24:1-2 read The Earth is the Lords and all it contains, The world and those who dwell in it. vs 2 For He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the rivers. Job 34:24 reads He breaks in pieces mighty men with out inquiry and sets others in there place. In Jeremiah, 51; 19-23 the prophet speaks of God as shattering the nations and destroying the kingdoms and now in Psalms these divine works are now applied to the Son. Now the final thing I’d like to say about this psalm is found in Psalms 2:12 it reads Kiss the Son least He (the Son) be angry, and you perish in the way, for His(the Son’s) wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all those who take refuge in Him (the Son). The blessedness of taking refuge in the Son in order to escape His wrath is a clear indication of His true deity because God alone is our Savior. (Isa 45:22) reads Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth of the earth; For I am God, I could list several other text to show how God through progressive revelation of Himself systematically reveals more and more about His incomprehensible yet apprehendable nature.
It truely is an exhaustive study which I believe vindicates the Nicene Creeds and other creeds understanding of the Nature of God. A Being who is One yet mulitpersonal in his relation to mankind and Himself. We see this fully developed in the New Testament where Jesus himself attributes to Himself the same language used for God alone. I will reference a couple of points…1st Jesus refers to Himself as the I AM…He says in John 8:58-59 Jesus said to them, “Truly Truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM. Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, Now compare this with God who said to Moses which divine name Moses should use when speaking to the people of Isael. God’s states in 3:14 and God said to Moses I Am Who I Am has sent me to you. From this verse the Jews came to view the words I Am as a divine name for God. And for a mere man (Jesus) to use this anme for Himself was consider blasphemy and it’s within this context that Jesus in John Before Abraham was, I Am. And if you notice the swift response of the Jews they understood what Christ was claiming. He using a divine name used only by God Himself.
In closing what I’ve attempted to show you is how wrong you are in your testimony and how wrong Joseph Smith was in redefining God to fit his own image. I don’t say this as a personal attack against you, I say this against the teachings of a prophet you say you follow. Joseph Smith was wrong because he contradicted the clear teachings of scripture on so many different levels, so much so, I as a christian must heed the warning of the Apostle Paul on this issue where he says Gal 1:6-9 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed. As we have said boefore so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received he is to be accursed.
I pray that you will come to know the real Christ..the Christ who said…In John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I Am He you will die in your sins…..
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karenrose Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I appreciate your thoughtful response to my post. You are quite expressive yourself :). I think I understand your points, but I do disagree. God the Father and the Savior, are two distinct personages, separate in form, as is the Holy Ghost. The 3 of them function as one in the sense that they are omniscient, and have the same motives and will for us as developing spirit children of the Father. But the Father and the Son have appeared in our day. They have glorified resurrected bodies. I testify that is true. I appreciate your agency and accept the fact that you feel differently and feel that you have been shown differently. I accept that. But I am as certain as I live that they are distinct. In the end, anyone who lives by the light they have, will continue to progress in knowledge. We have a love of the Savior and of God in common, and for that I am really glad. The Father spoke in the New Testament, introducing His Son, saying “This is my Beloved in whom I am well pleased.” The Savior is literally His Son. Have you read Joseph’s account personally? Have you read the Book of Mormon? I’d love for you to do that and then we can visit again. I really appreciate your sharing and hope the conversation can continue as you feel inclined. All the best in your spiritual journey. K
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I don’t pretend to know much about Mormonism, its all a big mystery to me. When I was younger I asked my mother if I could read the book of Mormon to see what it was all about and she told me “no” saying that I shouldn’t confuse myself with false teachings before I familiarize myself with the truth. These years later I don’t always do as my mother says but I still heed the warning, I am not especially prejudiced against Mormon doctrine I am just confused about many things and hesitant to simply dive head first into just any religion for fear that it will only confuse me farther. Being raised a Baptist I always learned and studied from the Bible and I want to believe it to be true. But as I tried to look deeper into the theology of my religion I found it to be divided to say the least. So in my search for answers Mormonism has crossed my path once more. I guess what I am saying is that one of my questions is on the nature of God and so the point I am laboriously trying to get to is how does Mormon belief about god deal with damnation? I don’t understand the idea of an all knowing all loving god who condemns his children to hell if they aren’t baptized. It seems like a silly thing to go to hell for. Many great and noble people of many faiths follow their feelings or “burning bosoms” in a religious fervor all the days of their lives living upright and moral existences. Am I really supposed to bow down and worship a god who will condemn these people to hell just because they didn’t “confess” the specific name of “Jesus” with their mouths? If god loves his children why did he send them to a “school” (or earth) where “wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14) so god the all knowing all loving god set us up in a situation he knew most of us would fail and is content to condemn to hell for all eternity those who don’t find out that the name for the god who guides their hearts is Jesus? I mean if the holy spirit tugs on the hearts of all men then it tugs on the hearts of say Hindus. If a Hindu follows this tug and lives a righteous life but never “confesses with his mouth that Jesus is lord” he gets sent to hell by Baptist doctrine. So the real test of our salvation is not what we learned, how we grew, or how we lived but were we lucky enough to be born in a family where the name for that tug was Jesus? All god cares about is did we get his name right, not who we were as people? If that’s your god then whatever I don’t care if he’s real or not you can have him. I don’t even want to worship that guy. As I say that I hope that you can correct my missteps in logic. I would really like to be Christian again but can’t get myself to while I still have these major hang ups. This is one of my biggest questions so if you can help me see how god can still love us with out contradicting the god of the bible then you would help me a great deal. Thank you.
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jj Reply:
March 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Thank you for your terrific, thoughtful post. I hope that I can shed some light on your thoughts and feelings from my perspective. I am a simple member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and speak for myself, but I believe that my views are in line with that of the church.
In the Church of Jesus Chris of Latter Day Saints, the love that God has for all mankind is paramount. We share a simple belief that God is just and has provided a plan for all men to return to Him.
We do not believe, nor are we so arrogant to assume that because we happened to be one of the lucky few, born into a Christian home, where Christ is taught, we are entitled to a special place in God’s kingdom. Although I am grateful to have parents who have taught me of Christ, they also taught me that God loves all of His children and that it is up to us to develop our own testimony of Him.
When Christ was on the earth, His influence and mission was heard and felt by few. Few of the worlds population would hear about the Messiah, with limited followers and limited technology. Even with today’s technology, there are many who have not heard and even more who have died without hearing the gospel message. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE DAMNED. Many would have you believe that there is no hope for them, that they are lost, that they are sealed to eternal damnation. This thought process is incorrect!
How would that be just? It wouldn’t be. It is NOT God’s, nor is it Christ’s plan. Most Christians do not understand First Peter Chapter three. (New Testament)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water
During the three days, which Christ’s mortal body lay entombed, Christ was busy teaching and working. This scripture identifies that the audience were individuals who had died during the time of the flood. Interesting that teaching opportunities were extended to those who had died, who had not first accepted the gospel.
In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, we believe that all mankind will have an opportunity to hear the gospel and participate in the sacred ordinances of His gospel. This hearing of the gospel will clearly not be heard by all in this life, but I can promise you that the Lord has provided a plan for all to be redeemed, if they are willing to accept and do what is required.
I want you to know that the ignorance of man has led to the persecution of the Savior and the criticism and persecution of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The doctrine of the church is the complete doctrine of Christ. People who let men dictate the will of God, instead of learning for themselves, are the ones who I believe will be found lacking. I hope this helps and I encourage you to look into the beliefs of the Church.
–
Jonathan Johnson
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